Pack it up, pack it in|
Let me begin
I came to win
Battle me that's a sin
Word to your moms I came to drop bombs
I got more rhymes than the bible's got psalms
And just like the Prodigal Son I've returned
Anyone stepping to me you'll get burned
Cause I got lyrics and you ain't got none
So if you come to battle bring a shotgun
This looks like a good read if you're one of those people who takes the bible seriously.|
Along those lines, how well do you know your bible? Read the Evil bible Quotes page and see what you're missing. It's all straight from the book.
Bible-thumpers are freaky people. I mean, who the hell let this guy get his license? I certainly don't want someone who is likely to resort to prayer flying my plane. I trust my life to the pilot, and if that pilot trusts his life to a magic, invisible pixie in the sky, he's trusting all of our lives, and I'm really not comfortable with that.|
"We've lost an engine! I'd better pray for deliverance! Only god can save us now! Steve, get on your knees here with me and pray!" as opposed to "Christ, an engine's out. I'm going to try to glide us in. Steve, get on the radio and advise ground control that we've lost an engine, and then.. [etc]."
And to then have that pilot trying to cram his religion down your throat while you're flying.. no, no thank you. I'd rather try to fly the plane myself. At least my co-pilot wouldn't be an old man that no one's ever seen. You'd be better off with Harvey the Rabbit.
Accosted by a bible thumper today. It went roughly like this, as best I can remember it:|
him, stepping out in front of me: excuse me...
him: have you heard the word?
me, thinking that that's not terribly original: No. Which word?
him: the word of our lord.
me: No, I haven't. What do I get if I hear the word of your lord?
him, apparently trying to keep it kind of light: Well, if you're lucky, you go to heaven.
me: And if I'm unlucky?
him: You'd have to spend an eternity in hell for rejecting jesus. [commences a lecture about how if I don't worship god, I've been tempted by the devil and must go to hell.]
me: so, essentially, you're saying that everyone goes to heaven who worships god, and people who don't worship god have been tempted away by the devil?
me: and that god wants everyone to go to heaven.
him: that's right
me: So, let me summarise, just to make certain that I have this clear in my head: god created heaven. god created earth. god created humanity, and put it on the earth, even though he wants humanity to be in heaven, and knows that those people will eventually end up in heaven, so there's really no need for earth in the first place. god created angels, too. Now, here's where it gets confusing: one of those angels, lucifer, became evil, and decided to tempt humanity into sin. Kind of like Darth Vader. So god, knowing that one of his angels was becoming evil, set down a bunch of rules so that lucifer could tempt humans to break them. And then he created hell to torment humans for all eternity for not resisting the temptations of lucifer, though he didn't design them to withstand lucifer's temptations in the first place because lucifer wasn't supposed to exist. Even though he knew that lucifer was going to exist because he is supposed to be all-knowing. So, essentially, though he wants them to be in heaven, god puts humans on Earth knowing that they will be tempted by lucifer, and that many of them will end up having to go to hell and suffer eternal torment. When he could just put them straight into heaven and forget the whole Earth business, or just destroy lucifer, and then they wouldn't be tempted. Right?
him: god wants to test our faith...
him: to make sure that only the faithful go to heaven
me: but if satan is the one who tempts humans away from their faith, then skipping the Earth and putting everyone straight into heaven would mean that he wouldn't have to condemn anyone to hell. So from this we can conclude that god wants some people to go to hell for eternity. Alternatively, why doesn't he destroy satan?
him: the lord works in mysterious-
me: this lord of yours sounds like a bit of a jerk, don't you think? He creates the concept of sin, lets satan go around tempting people, and then condemns the people who are tempted to an eternity of torment, even though he's the one who put them into the position where they could be tempted, and therefore tormented, in the first place.
him: god did not create sin. jesus hates sin...
me: He's the one who set down the rules. He's the one who made it possible for satan to tempt people to break those rules. Therefore he invented sin, and made it possible for people to be cast into hell. Why?
him: our lord works in myst-
me: You already said that, and it's such a cop out. Try using your brain. If you're going to accost me in the street and tell me that I need to convert to your religion, you need to have a basic understanding of it yourself. How about this: jesus died for our sins, right?
him, cautiously: yes
me: ok, so now look around you. Do we seem to be completely sin free? No? So what good did it do? god let them kill his only son for nothing. What kind of god is that?
him: It wasn't for nothing! god wanted to save us from sin-
me: and yet you still have to stop me in the street and ask whether I've been saved? So jesus and god did a really crappy job, didn't they? And god, being all-knowing, must have known that his plan to sacrifice his son wouldn't work, but he did it anyway. So now god's sent both his son to his death and his human creations to an eternity of torment. So far, the track record's not looking too good, is it? In fact, if god was all-knowing, he must have foreseen that lucifer would become evil and want to hurt humanity, and yet he still let it happen. Which again suggests that god wants humans to suffer. And you worship this guy? You have the gall to say that he's a "loving god" when what he actually is is an abusive bastard. What the hell kind of loving father figure is that? [at this point the guy is looking very uncomfortable, and trying to pretend that other people are waiting to talk to him] I mean, the guy gives you all of these rules knowing full well that you can't help but break them. He hard-wires it into you that you're going to want to do the things that he forbids, like shagging and thinking and things, and then just to make certain, he creates an imp to run around on the Earth and tempt you. What the fuck kind of monster is your god? Hm?
him: [picks up his briefcase and fliers, and leaves]
Because remember: god in his infinite compassion does not want you to go to hell, which he in his infinite mercy created.
If you're an atheist, you've probably had that argument with a christian at some point. You know the one.. they throw what they think are logical arguments at you (most of which make no sense whatever), and you shoot them down. |
It's not just you.. we all have to deal with that nonsense. That's why this page is here.. to recognise the ridiculousness of the arguments. Some of them are exaggerations, but I've seen a lot of them myself.
The paradox of the stone:|
1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent (definition).
2. God either can or can not create a stone so heavy that even God cannot lift it.
3. If God can create the stone, God is not omnipotent, there is at least one thing God can't do.
4. If God cannot create the stone, there is at least one thing God cannot do.
5. If there is it at least one thing God cannot do, God is not omnipotent ( - ).
6. Therefore God does not exist (, ).
According to the 2001 census just released, religion is fading in BC. The number of people declaring that they have no religion is up to 1.3 million, or about a third of the population, which is up from less than a million in 1991. Check this out:|
|religion||1991||1991%||2001||2001%||+/- #||+/- %|
|No religion||974 350||30.0%||1 356 600||35.1%||+382 250||+5.1%|
|Protestant||1 359 805||41.9%||1 213 295||31.4%||-146 510||-10.5%|
|Roman Catholic||595 315||18.3%||666 905||17.2%||+71 590||-1.1%|
|Other Christian||86 670||2.7%||200 340||5.2%||+113670||+2.5%|
|Sikh||74 545||2.3%||135 310||3.5%||+60 765||+1.2%|
|Buddhist||36 435||1.1%||85 540||2.2%||+49 105||+1.1%|
|Muslim||24 930||0.8%||56 220||1.5%||+31 290||+0.7%|
|Christian Orthodox||23 540||0.7%||35 655||0.9%||+12 115||+0.2%|
|Hindu||18 156||0.6%||31 495||0.8%||+13 339||+0.2%|
|Jewish||16 640||0.5%||21 230||0.5%||+4 590||-|
Canadians as a whole are taking religion less seriously, though.
According to the census, 20 000 people gave their religion as "Jedi." And more than 75% of Canadian Jedi are from BC, Ontario, and Alberta. Yay BC!
In other words, we're winning!
america prides itself on its freedoms. To that end, it established the first amendment to their constitution.|
So what the hell's all this about? It's scary. Maybe the american government "recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure the blessings and protection of Providence for the people of the United States and our Armed Forces during the conflict in Iraq and under the threat of terrorism at home." isn't the best way to go about protecting that freedom. Just my opinion, of course.
As someone on Fark.com posted:
A nation this full of idiotic sky god worshipers should be kept away from the weapons that secular science created. I think we've all seen the result.
"A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant."
The US Constitution. Remember that? It's the one whose first amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."|
The US president. Remember him? He's the one who just made it a law that no matter what your religion, you will pledge allegience to america being one nation, "under god," thereby making the christian god and the american nation indivisible and destroying the last pretense of the freedom of religion supposedly guaranteed by the first amendment of the US Constitution.
Meanwhile, the Godless Americans, with their march on Washington, are fighting a very losing battle. If their government won't listen to the document upon which the country was built, they won't listen to the roughly 2400 people who showed up to voice their opinions. From fundamentalist christians you cannot a religiously impartial government make.
The christian god is a just and merciful god, they tell me. Riiiiight.
Hm. It occurs to me that Christianity could effectively be described as "a religion based upon crucifiction."
Ah, the rational mind. My parents inform me that, when I was young, I had a theory about christianity. You see, in my school in England, there was an assumption that children had been raised on the christian bible. (You know, Religion For Dummies.) So they didn't take any time to explain the nonsense that they were reading to us from the book at assembly in the morning. They just assumed that we'd understand it. Apparently, I came home after one such session and informed my parents that "jesus died on a crossing." When they pressed me for details, I explained that I suspected that he may have been hit by a train. After all, how can someone die on "a cross," when a cross is a mark like this: X |
Since they didn't explain what they meant, I established a theory. The closest thing to cross on which someone could die would be a crossing. Why would they die on a crossing? A train. That's rational thought for you. :)
god was pretty lazy when it came to body plans, wasn't he? I mean, really. He supposedly created millions of different species, and, what? Sixteen body plans? I mean, jesus god, be a little more original. The guy's supposed to be able to create anything, right? So why do all mammals have the same body plan? If humanity is supposed to be created in god's image, how come it's fundamentally no different from any other mammal? Two front limbs, two hind limbs, a head with most of the sensory organs on it, a tail (or just a tail-bone), hair, and so on. Even marine mammals are the same basic design. Look how close the human design is to the apes. This is the best he could do?
So, if god didn't intend you to masturbate, why do your arms end where they do? I mean, c'mon. Not only did he load you up with sensory organs, but he put them in easy reach? Talk about convenient access to parts and recreation.
Yet another reason that women need freedom from religion. I mean, as if they needed more reasons.
Here's what I don't get. The bible is supposed to be inspired by god but written by men, right? And we're all supposed to know that the bible was inspired by god because the bible tells us so. But it was written by men. No one denies this. Has it not occurred to the bible thumpers that maybe the men who wrote it lied? People do that. I mean, if I tell your typical christian that I'm jesus reborn, they won't believe me. Why not? I couldn't be lying, could I? After all, I'm jesus, and jesus wouldn't lie. And they know I'm jesus because I tell them so, and I can't be lying because jesus wouldn't lie. It's the same thing exactly. The bible can't be a lie because it's inspired by god. And you know this because it tells you so. feh.
Story: Court rules against Pledge of Allegiance -Canada.com|
Litigant explains why he brought Pledge suit -CNN.com (that beacon of impartial reporting)
So here's the deal: In america they have the Pledge Of Allegiance, in which you are expected to show your servile devotion by reciting a bunch of words. This is because, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, americans still believe that their country is the best in the world. Whatever. Most americans seem to be fanatical about their country anyway, and so they are pretty happy to do this. But the problem is that the pledge contains the words "one nation under god" which is offensive to non-christians. And rightly so. The official american position is that america is a nation united under the christian god, and that it places its trust in that god. That tramples all over the right to freedom of/from religion that's supposed to be guaranteed by the american consitution. Some time ago, the american supreme court ruled that a person should be free to not salute the american flag and not say the pledge of allegiance if (s)he didn't want to. Fine. Good ruling. If someone's going to pledge allegiance to something or someone, they should really be doing it voluntarily. The fact that people don't have to say this is being used as a defence by the theists who want to keep the under god part in the pledge. "You don't have to say it if you don't believe it."
Yeah, the problem here is that the pledge is the only pledge to the nation, and it equates believing in america with believing in god. So what do you do if, like Michael Newdow (the litigant in this case) you believe in america but not in god? Georgie Bush sr. apparently said that atheists shouldn't consider themselves real americans. Whether he said that or not, that's the attitude that's being presented here. Georgie Bush jr. said today that "the United States 'is a nation that values our relationship with the Almighty' and said the judges that ruled that voluntary recitals of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools is unconstitutional are 'out of step with the traditions and history of our country.'" -CNN.com
Of course, he's dead wrong. Look at the original version of the pledge: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. "
That is far more 'in step' with the american consitution than forcing one particular god down the throats of the people of the country- a people who are supposed to benefit from freedom of religion.
Look again, George. "Under god" was only added in 1954, and because the paranoid government of the time equated atheism with communism. (That's hilarious.. communist nations tend to be more religious than democratic ones. "Religion is excellent stuff for controlling the common people."-Napoleon. Once again the americans get it completely wrong.)
Religion and patriotism are separate. Church and State must be separate for equality, and in his remarks, american president georgie bush jr. has shown that atheists and other bible-thumpers are second class. He's promoting that idea that atheists can't consider themselves americans.
|Bush said the ruling from a panel with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California ignored the fact that the Declaration of Independence acknowledged "we receive our rights from God." He said the court's decision was proof of the need for "common-sense judges" who "understand we derive our rights from God."|
This guy is supposed to be defending the american constitution? The one that guarantees freedom of religion? How effectively can a religious person defend the right to freedom of religion? Let's keep in mind that his religion states that anyone who doesn't believe in his particular god is a bad person who is going to hell.
"I feel that this is part of our history and no one has a right to change it," said Staff Sgt. Katherine Romar with the Army's 10th Mountain Division at Bagram Air Base. "That is the reason why we're here today, fighting to uphold our freedom."
Hello? If freedom is what you're fighting for, why are you complaining about a decision that affirms that freedom? If your freedom means not having other ideas forced upon you, how can you not feel that being forced to submit to religious dogma is a violation of that freedom?
What I want to know is, why not just take out the "under god" part and just return the pledge to its previous form. That way it doesn't impact anyone's rights.
Or is that too complicated for bush? He's only the president, after all.
Recommended reading on the subject:
Taking The Pledge -Freedom From Religion Foundation
Ninth Circuit Pledge Decision Recognizes "Liberty and Justice for All" -Freedom From Religion Foundation
User Friendly -userfriendly.org
Right now there's only the CAP stuff here. It's basically a place for me to stick atheist/religious thoughts as they occur to me. That includes the occasional rant. :) |
I'm an atheist, in case you haven't figured it out.