thanks for choosing god.



speaking of scams...
Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope.











Please welcome to the stage, RANTING YANKEES! Yeah!

Nothing so cool. The Ranting Yankee in question is one Heather, an american with a lot to say. And say it she does. Posted here because it's more articulate than most of the email I get from americans. enjoy.

From: Heather [mailto:hathorsa@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:25 PM
To: wildsong@presidentbushviolently-happy.net
Subject: And that's just this war.

Ah, yes that's just this war. I'm sorry, but after reading your statements about how stupid Americans are, yadda yadda yadda, I feel that I must protest.  But first, I will qualify my position. Yes, my government sometimes does stupid shit, such as continuing to support Israel. Yes, the friendly fire incident where the US fired upon a Canadian training facility was a stupid mistake, to put it mildly, and no I did not hear about it until I read it in your web site (and yes I do watch the news and read the newspaper). But I will say this...whenever there has been a wrong in the world, which country is always looked upon to correct that wrong? The United States. Ever since WWII, when the US won the war, other countries have been looking to us to save their asses, when they've been invaded, when tyrannical governments rule them, etc. Suppose the US hadn't stepped in during WWII? Would you have liked your homeland of GB to have been ruled by the Nazi party? Hitler would've taken over all of Europe, if the US hadn't stepped in, and who knows how far in the world he would've tried to go.

Now lets move on to another example. The latest from the UN about the AIDS epidemic...which country is the UN looking to, to set an example of the level of funding needed to conduct research, manufacture drugs, etc.? The United States...gee, imagine that. Isn't it funny how people living in other countries love to disrespect the US and it's people, but whenever they need money, or military assistance, who's the first people they go to? The US! Funny thing about that!

From your New York, New York page:
What about England, Canada, Germany, France, etc etc. In a lot of ways they're more free than the poor Americans.
Hmmm, and why are those countries free? Because of the US stepping in during WWII (please see above).

You're here to put on your avenging angel hat and deal with the effect. Understanding of any kind is not what propaganda is about, after all.
And just what would Canada or GB do, if an incident such as this occurred on their own soil? Hmm? I think the avenging angel might pop it's ugly little head up in those countries, as well.

But then, America isn't here to deal with the cause of the problem.
I won't dispute that, because if my government were actually to deal with the problem (or the part of the problem that isn't radical Muslims viewing all of western civ. as the devil), we would stop kissing Israel's ass, and stop interfering in the Middle East. We don't need them (Israel) strategically, or for intelligence, or for anything other than a pain in the ass, actually.

Look how tough we are! Look how much bigger our collective penis is! Don't try to understand the cause of the problem! Get angry! Anger solves everything, right? Again, what would other countries do? THE SAME THING!!!

But they have failed; our country is strong.
And so is our ego. Damn straight! You must remember that this country was founded by people who fought for freedom from a tyrannical England. Our egos have been blown up by the countless times we have saved other countries asses. Yes, there have been errors in judgment, which have been admitted by the way, but we own our ego. We won't be cowed into hiding, frightened!
Oh, and by the way, your flights are cancelled for the next six weeks. I don't recall it being six weeks, maybe they just cancelled flight in/out of Canada for six weeks. *evil grin* There's nothing wrong with being frightened of this, but for christ's sake stop with all of the posing and sabre rattling. You don't impress anyone except yourselves. I can't think of a rebuttal to this other than "whatever!", because it's so ludicrous.

The brightest beacon of freedom to mug and rape people in the streets.
And these things don't happen in Canada, I suppose?

Freedom of hospitals and other medical facilities to turn people away because they don't have the money to pay for emergency medical treatment.
I'll give you that, I'm pissed that there's no national healthcare, myself.

The opportunity to have your head bashed in by someone who cares more about the six dollars in your wallet than he does about your life.
I suppose this doesn't happen in Canada either?

That's what America is all about.
That's what humans are all about. People are the same, no matter what country you live in.

Go capitalism!
You'd better believe go capitalism! How do you think you're country functions?

You don't think then, Georgie, that America was targetted for this attack because it's constantly telling every other country how much better it is?
Well, if we're not so much better, how come so many people, from so many different countries of the world, come here, make lots of money (in most cases, more money than they ever could possibly have dreamed of or imagined or understood in their home country) and never go back to their homelands? There must be something good about the US.

Because of the way it deals with every other nation on earth?
How many times has the US been asked to step in on foreign policy?

You don't think that it's because of your foreign policy?
I repeat, how many times is the US asked to step in on foreign policy?

You put the Taliban in power, you dork. You created Osama bin Ladin. You're the ones who are supplying funds and arms to the IRA, the one's who've involved yourselves in issues all over the world that are none of your business, even though you've been asked to step in, and through it all you've told the rest of the world how much better than them you are. Do you expect thanks? Are you so cut off from reality like the rest of your people that you don't realise just how much the rest of the world hates America? Well good, let's turn back the hands of time, and not step in where we've not been wanted, and see what a wonderful world we would have with most of the world, except for the US, run by Communists, and Nazis. You have money. Which most of the world wants. You have resources. Which the rest of them wishes they had. You're a valuable tool. Oh, so much more than that.

since Ronald Reagan.
I really can't believe you went there.

Of course, had the people who were harmed been Canadian, or anything else not American, the Americans wouldn't even have noticed. That's a really interesting statement considering all of the money, food, resources we donate to starving, natural disaster related incidents in various countries around the world every year. In fact, I believe Americans donate the most out of any country in the world.

We still need your tax money. I haven't finished that new extension on my retirement home yet.
As if that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. At least we have a higher standard of the living than say, the poor peoples that support various Arab sultanates.

Our financial institutions remain strong, and the American economy will be open for business, as well.
Because all we care about is the money, ladies and gentlemen.
Well since our economy essentially supports the global economy, that might be a trifle important to other nations, as well.

Of course, when I say 'search' what I mean is 'search for current political nuisances so that we can use the situation to elminate some embarrasment.'
I'm sorry, call me a stupid American or something, but I think that statement needs a tad bit more clarification to have any validity.

We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.
Gee, I think that statement might be in reference to those who knowingly harbor terrorists. Duh!

Following that mentality, George, do you know how many American serial killers have been loose in Canada over the years?
Huh??

Never mind that it's their blood that is saving my people's lives, and that it's their homes that are housing my country's refugees.
Once again, huh??

I have a question for you: Have you ever lived in America, or have you always lived in America's red-headed stepchild, I mean Canada?

~Heather
The man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all~ Erykah Badu



From: Wildsong [mailto:madgerald@presidentbushviolently-happy.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:54 PM
To: Heather
Subject: RE: And that's just this war.

Hello Heather. What a delight to hear from you.

:: I'm sorry, but after reading your statements about how stupid
:: Americans are, yadda yadda yadda, I feel that I must protest.


Don't be sorry. After all, debate is the best way to the truth, and I encourage everyone to argue their point(s). And some of your points were good. Some, of course, were entirely propaganda-based, but that's not your fault. I'll discuss that in a moment. If you would like me to expand on any of the following points, do let me know.


:: But first, I will qualify my position. Yes, my government
:: sometimes does stupid shit, such as continuing to support
:: Israel.

All governments do. It happens. It's just that the rate of stupid actions by the american government is much higher than any other country of the same standing. (and by that I mean western, first world countries.) You only have to look at the history books. (not american ones)


:: Yes, the friendly fire incident where the US fired upon a
:: Canadian training facility was a stupid mistake, to put it
:: mildly,

And it didn't stop there. They have had friendly fire incidents before and since. They opened fire on a wedding party. Or didn't you see that on the news, either?


:: and no I did not hear about it until I read it in your web
:: site (and yes I do watch the news and read the newspaper).


Why am I not surprised? The media in america, in most cases (certainly not all) is a propaganda machine, telling the public what the government wants it to hear. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist.. that's just how governments work. But you know what? Most governments aren't as serious about the propaganda as america is. It's been going on since america began, but if you look at the other countries, no one else tells its people how wonderful the country is to the same extent. The British have the attitude that British is better, but it's not propaganda it's an attitude that stems from the Empire and sort of never went away. No one tells them that.. they tell themselves. They look at america as the uneducated cousin that is embarrassing to have around. Canada's national pride comes mostly from beer commercials (Molson Canadian's "I Am Canadian" campaign) and hockey games. France, Italy, Germany.. it's all the same. There's a bit of propaganda because the governments want the people to be proud of their country, but there's nothing like the amount to which the US government exposes its people. That's why news stories about the government or the military doing something stupid are buried, when they're reported at all. And the fact that you do read and watch the news, and still didn't know about it just goes that much further to prove the point.

:: But I will say this...whenever there has been a wrong in the
:: world,


So, what do we consider wrong, then? Is killing wrong? Is blowing up children wrong? Remember, you're looking at right and wrong from the american point of view, and americans seem to feel that their way is Right, so everything else must be Wrong. And then they decide to help the poor non-americans. Just because they can. Sure, sometimes they're asked. But not always, and that's another reason that so many nations of the world hate america. For example, my parents used to play in a band on the bases in Germany. They had to deal with americans all of the time because there were so many of them. The americans were constantly rude and unpleasant about their German hosts. They even used to say things like "I'm going back to the world" when they went home, as if Germany wasn't a real place. And believe me, the Germans were happy to see them go. Where do you think that this dislike and disgust of the americans comes from? You'd think that, as Canadians, we'd be all friendly with america because it's so close and has lots of money, particularly if it is, as you've been told, the greatest country in the world. The american Way is not always the Right way, you know. I think that a lot of that stems from the massive witch hunts in the 50's, when america spent a lot of time telling its people that communism was Evil, and Wrong, and that communists were godless beasts that ate babies and beat up old women. And that the american way was the right way, and america was so much better than everyone else. And it worked so well that they just kept doing it. Patriotism is like religion in that it doesn't require a factual base, and can be used to whip people into a frenzy until rationality is lost and the crowd will do what you tell it to. Tell me this: aside from money, which is largely the result of natural resources, what makes america better than every other country?


:: which country is always looked upon to correct that wrong?

When I was a young lad in school, there was a little guy who was always pushing people around. If anyone stood up to him, he'd run home and tell his big brother, who would come in and beat up the offending party. That's what america is. No one likes america, but it's much bigger than most other countries, and if you want a fight to end quickly and successfully, you bring in the big brother. Even if you don't like him.


:: The United States.

The united states tends to see something that it thinks is Wrong (see unamerican) and go in to correct it. And the people love that sort of thing. The american people, that is. Look at the IRA. There's been american governmental support of the IRA because they thought that the British presence in Ireland was Wrong. Who the hell are they to make that call? And how many people have been killed because the americans were supplying bombs and guns and money? How many children have been blown up? More than I care to consider. How, exactly, is this Righting the Wrong, would you say? Or don't you believe that it's happened? It wasn't exactly in the american news.


:: Ever since WWII, when the US won the war,

Oh dear. You don't believe that, do you? Let me tell you the way it happened: the Allied forces fought the Axis forces for years, while america couldn't be bothered to join. Thousands of people were killed on each side. But Europe is an old continent, and slowly the opposing sides ground each other down to the point that the Germans were sending young boys out to fight, and the British were being starved on their island, and killed off in air raids. And then, when the Japanese attacked the americans (for some reason best known to themselves), the americans finally decided that they weren't really in favour of this whole war thing after all, and deigned to enter. And with their massive resources and fanatical patriotism, the declining Axis forces didn't stand a chance. But most of the war was long over, and really, all the americans did was apply the hammer of brute force. The British were still cracking the codes on the German war machines, planning the best points of attack and defence, and so on. Consider: during the war, there was a code breaking installation in England called Bletchley Park. It was at this place that all of the codes were broken. Forget what you saw in U-571, it was the British at Bletchley Park that cracked all of the Enigma codes. At one point, a secret document produced by Bletchley Park was entrusted to the americans. Within a week they had lost it to the Axis forces. A week. These are people who are useful as a hammer, and about as bright. Honestly, go and do some research into the americans' part in the war. And don't do it in an american text book. Find something written by a Canadian, English, or German historian. When my grandfather, who fought under Monty against Rommel, hears an american say that they won the war, you can see him starting to tear up. He's thinking of all of the friends he lost, all of the missions and battles and horror stories of the war that he and his friends endured before america bothered to even enter the war. No, america didn't win the war. It helped to win it, certainly, and no one has ever denied that. But had they entered the war at the beginning, along with everyone else, the war would not have been such a horror, it would have been over far faster, and without the other countries all burning themselves out. And america wouldn't be so much more powerful than everyone else now. Realistically, the american war effort was paltry compared to the other countries who gave everything they had, absolutely everything, to stop the Nazis from conquering all of Europe.


:: other countries have been looking to us to save their asses,
:: when they've been invaded, when tyrannical governments rule
:: them, etc.


Other countries see america for what it is, and use it as such. Oh, I'm sure that there are people out there who see america the way america would like to be seen, as a land of hope and freedom and riches, but the governments know that america is a big, useful war machine. Realistically, what else would they do? Fight the war on their own, sure, but why when you could just send word to america that you're under attack by communists or something. What did america do about the Taliban before it came home to america? They... put them in power. Yes, that saved the Afghani people. Thank god for america. Good judgement call. Hey, how about that Viet Nam thing? Or Korea? Those unamerican communist dogs needed to be taught a lesson, right? No one asked america to be there. That's why there was so much protesting. america just went and stuck its big guns where they weren't welcome.


:: Suppose the US hadn't stepped in during WWII?

I imagine that the Axis would eventually have conquered Europe, and from there, all of Asia. And then, with the combined resources of all of those countries, they would have conquered the rest of the world. Keep in mind that the Germans almost had nuclear technology, which is why america had to develop and use it first, which they did because they were at war. And the Nazis would not have hesitated to use it when attacking america. america wouldn't have seen it coming, I'm sure. Remember, the USSR alone was a match for america. Imagine the Axis forces with that kind of power. We're all lucky that the americans joined when they did. But please, don't say that they won the war. That makes everyone else's sacrifices, desperate struggles, and unending hope meaningless.


:: Would you have liked your homeland of GB to have been ruled
:: by the Nazi party?


I wouldn't. I've talked to people who lived with the very real possibility that it would happen.. everyone from grandmothers who didn't have a bomb shelter, so they huddled under a table with their children while the bombers droned overhead, to grandfathers who flew in the Battle of Britain or fought in the fierce desert, knowing that eventually Britain would fall. Believe me, I don't like the thought, and I'm glad that america joined the war. But everyone who fought in that war, or lived through that war, is furious and sorrowful when they hear the americans claim that they won. Like nothing that anyone else did matters. How many lives would have been spared if america had joined sooner, along with the rest of the world? How many fathers and brothers and fiancÚs and husbands would have come home? And they say they "bailed us out" as if we had taken on an enemy that we couldn't handle. As if we started the whole thing, and had to come running to america to save us. Why couldn't america see that the Axis forces were a threat to everyone, not just a minor skirmish that they didn't need to bother with? Yeah, america joined the war. Eventually. And now americans say things like you do, about winning the war. They make movies like U-571. You know, the German U-boat that carried the code book was captured by a British ship.. the HMS Bulldog, if I recall correctly. There are still sailors from both sides of that incident alive today. How do you think they'd feel, seeing that movie? Seeing the battles that they fought and bled and tried so hard to win attributed to someone else... someone from a country too lazy to even join the war when they were needed?


:: Hitler would've taken over all of Europe, if the US hadn't
:: stepped in, and who knows how far in the world he would've
:: tried to go.


Not tried. He would have taken everyone else, too. The american military minds were really not very good. Just look at the history books (again, try to find some objective ones). And the Canadian military has never been terribly impressive, though after the war we did have the largest navy, apparently. So we would have been taken over here, too. What good is a navy against a fleet of U-boats? A Nazi world doesn't hold any appeal for me.


:: Now lets move on to another example. The latest from the UN
:: about the AIDS epidemic...which country is the UN looking to,
:: to set an example of the level of funding needed to conduct
:: research, manufacture drugs, etc.?

Ok, now look at it this way: which country presently has the most powerful economy? Who else are they going to go to? No one else has the kind of money necessary to fund this kind of thing. Do they let the americans make any decisions? Do they trust them to make any kind of judgements outside their own budgeting? No. They just need america's money. Guns and money is what america is all about.


:: The United States...gee, imagine that.

The country with the largest bank account being asked to make efforts where money is concerned? Yes, imagine that.


:: Isn't it funny how people living in other countries love to
:: disrespect the US and it's people,


No, it's quite sad. It's sad that america has created an image for itself that makes the other nations of the world despise it so. But what would you expect? america is constantly telling the rest of the world how much better than them it is. Would you like it if I told you every day that I was much better than you? If I had a stack of dollar bills that I waved at you every chance I got because I knew you were broke? Would it make you respect me? Would it make you like me? Or, more likely, would it just be plain insulting? And that works on a nation scale as well as it would between you and I. Now, I'm not going to tell you that I'm better, richer, and tougher than you. Whether it's true or not, I'm not going to do it. So why is it that I can see my way to being polite and considerate, but the "greatest country in the world" can't?


:: but whenever they need money, or military assistance, who's the
:: first people they go to? The US! Funny thing about that!


Who has the most money and the biggest guns in the world? So why would you go to, for example, Canada for military assistance when america has bigger guns? That's just common sense. There have been times when I've had to ask people I didn't like if they had change for a $20 so that I would have coins or small bills for public transit. Exactly the same situation.


:: From your New York, New York page:

Ah yes, that page. It's generated a lot of mail, both positive and negative.


::: What about England, Canada, Germany, France, etc etc. In a
::: lot of ways they're more free than the poor Americans.
::
:: Hmmm, and why are those countries free? Because of the US
:: stepping in during WWII (please see above).


You miss the point. The things that the americans seem to feel are the things that make americans 'free' are no different from the things that make other nations 'free.' Really, what has america got that no other nation has? An elected government? Hmm.. try every other western country. A monetary economy? Try just about every other nation in the world. Oh, how about an organised national religion? Nope, just about every country has one of those, too, along with freedom of religion. So what is it that makes america 'free' and other nations not? And what was it about that freedom that was under attack when someone flew a plane into the world trade centre?


::: You're here to put on your avenging angel hat and deal with
::: the effect. Understanding of any kind is not what propaganda
::: is about, after all.
::

:: And just what would Canada or GB do, if an incident such as
:: this occurred on their own soil? Hmm? I think the avenging
:: angel might pop it's ugly little head up in those countries,
:: as well.


That's the point. It wouldn't have happened. Oh, the IRA does blow up bits of England, and the devastation makes the world trade centre look insignificant (remember, american funded) but the people in charge try to find the cause, and thereby find the solution. There's no avenging British angel, but there are lots of ministers and analysts trying to work out a solution to the problem that will work for everyone. The american solution is to go in, guns blazing, without looking at why they were attacked. Why, do you think? Now look at Canada. How many enemies do we have in the world? Who, exactly, would want to do to us what was done to america? No one. And you know why? Because we don't go around telling people that we're better, and we don't go pushing people around just because we can. It's a matter of foreign policy. We're everyone's friends, we're mostly neutral, and we don't get blown up. (Except by americans)


::: But then, America isn't here to deal with the cause of
::: the problem.
::
:: I won't dispute that, because if my government were actually
:: to deal with the problem (or the part of the problem that
:: isn't radical Muslims viewing all of western civ. as the devil),
:: we would stop kissing Israel's ass, and stop interfering in the
:: Middle East.


Absolutely. It's something that doesn't involve america any more than it involves the rest of the world, and america shouldn't be there. Realistically, it's a problem created by differing religious and political views, and america's presence isn't going to solve the problem. The real shame is that people are being killed who aren't any part of the matter.


:: We don't need them (Israel) strategically, or for intelligence, or
:: for anything other than a pain in the ass, actually.

Maybe your government wants to be able to say that they won the war.


::: Look how tough we are! Look how much bigger our collective penis is!
::: Don't try to understand the cause of the problem! Get angry! Anger
::: solves everything, right?
::
:: Again, what would other countries do? THE SAME THING!!!

Rationality seems to be a strength that the american government hasn't bothered to cultivate. Just look at george's entire speech and you can see that. Other countries would examine the cause. america deals with the effect.

::: But they have failed; our country is strong.
::: And so is our ego.
:: Damn straight! You must remember that this country was founded
:: by people who fought for freedom from a tyrannical England.


Ah, more propaganda. Tell me, what exactly was it about the English rule that was tyrannic? Don't look it up. What do you know that makes you feel that English rule was so bad? What was the freedom for which the colonists were fighting? "Tyrannic" is a strong word... how sure are you that it's the right one?


:: Our egos have been blown up by the countless times we have saved
:: other countries asses.


Oh yes. And how many times have you been miserably defeated by other countries? Or horribly embarrassed through some international incident? Do they tell you that Canadian forces burnt your capital to the ground when you attacked us?


:: Yes, there have been errors in judgment, which have been admitted
:: by the way,


Admitted when there was no alternative. In the white house, there are artistic renderings of every major battle. Except 1812. The bombing of the Canadian troops was admitted only when bush was confronted by two Canadian reporters in a press conference. The attack on the wedding party just recently has been spun to make it look like it was their wedding party's fault, even though it was a small party armed with handguns against a huge gunship. The attack on the red cross building several months ago has been completely buried, as has the attack on a clearly marked UN supply convoy. How about the cover-ups of the vicious gang rapes on Okinawa by american soldiers? Need I go on?


:: but we own our ego.

You sound so proud of it. And then you get upset that everyone hates america because of it. You can't have it both ways, you know.


::: We won't be cowed into hiding, frightened!
::: Oh, and by the way, your flights are cancelled for the next six weeks.
::

:: I don't recall it being six weeks, maybe they just cancelled flight
:: in/out of Canada for six weeks. *evil grin*


I wrote this before it was over, just when it had all happened and all flights were still grounded. It was not meant to be factual. It was making the point. Hyperbole.


::: There's nothing wrong with being frightened of this, but for christ's
::: sake stop with all of the posing and sabre rattling. You don't impress
::: anyone except yourselves.
::

:: I can't think of a rebuttal to this other than "whatever!", because it's
:: so ludicrous.


Ludicrous in what way? Oh, the americans have a big military. No one will deny that. But they're also generally regarded as a big, stupid thug. They don't think about what they do. They get righteously angry and lash out. Do you respect big, stupid thugs? Personally, I don't. And neither do the other nations of the world. They might say "Uh oh, Afghanistan's gonna get it now!" but it's that fine line between being impressed and being amused. Ooh, look! america's being tough again. There's a lot of flexing and posing and we're the greatest country in the world blah blah blah, and the rest of us think that it's hilarious. It's like watching a bar fight from the other end of the room, when someone's poured a pint over the big, stupid thug's head. He takes himself so seriously that he's funny to anyone watching. america is a macho jerk but if you don't humour him he might turn on you next.


::: The brightest beacon of freedom to mug and rape people in
::: the streets.
::

:: And these things don't happen in Canada, I suppose?

They do, but to such a lesser extent that you wouldn't believe me if I told you. One of the many reasons that Canada has been considered the best place to live so many times is the question of personal safety. There are murders, and there are rapes, but there are less of them in our whole country in a year than there are in New York in a month.


::: Freedom of hospitals and other medical facilities to turn people
::: away because they don't have the money to pay for emergency medical
::: treatment.
::
:: I'll give you that, I'm pissed that there's no national healthcare,
:: myself.

Careful, that's commie talk, isn't it? Canada is a largely socialist country, after all. You don't want to impinge on the american freedoms, do you? Actually, I'm impressed that you think that. I've talked to americans on IRC who didn't. In fact, there was a person I was talking to on IRC once who had just (he said) been bitten or stung by something nasty.. a spider or an insect, and when I said that he should go to the hospital he said he couldn't afford it. I mentioned that I forgot that america didn't have healthcare, and he went on a rant about how healthcare wasn't necessary and the american system was the Right one. Do you wonder at my opinions of americans when this is the kind of representation the country has?


::: The opportunity to have your head bashed in by someone
::: who cares more about the six dollars in your wallet than
::: he does about your life.
::
:: I suppose this doesn't happen in Canada either?

I wouldn't say that. I think that you'll find that this sort of thing happens everywhere. But statistically, there is far, far less violent crime in Canada than in america. This is largely, I think, due to the much lower standard of living in america. Though the pay is higher than here, so is the population, but not the number of jobs and as a result, many people live in far worse conditions than we consider even poverty here. It's no wonder, then, that people are willing to commit such acts to get money.


::: That's what America is all about.
::

:: That's what humans are all about. People are the same, no matter
:: what country you live in.

You're absolutely right. But, and this is important, people resort to violence. Not counting the people who are violent for the sake of violence, I'm talking about the guy who wants the six dollars in your wallet here. He cares more about that money than he does about your life because he comes first (most people are like that, as you mentioned) and social assistance programs either don't exist or are woefully inadequate. So to survive, he feels that he has to do you in, and take what little money he can. And that's not taking into account nasty things like drugs. Whereas, in countries like Canada, there are social assistance programs that make such measures unnecessary, for the most part.


::: Go capitalism!
::

:: You'd better believe go capitalism! How do you think you're country
:: functions?


It is based upon a monetary system, certainly, but Canada is largely socialist, and here's the difference: Capitalism is centred around money, while socialism is about people. That's why we have healthcare. That's why we have social assistance programs and a higher standard of education. We care about people, not money. Money is just the way the world works, but why it works is people. At least to Canada. Most people here aren't even aware of that, but as an immigrant I see it. In america, it's about the almighty dollar. Money is an end in and of itself. That's why we're different, and that's why I'm in Canada and not america. Well, one of the reasons, anyway.


::: You don't think then, Georgie, that America was targetted for
::: this attack because it's constantly telling every other country
:: how much better it is?
::
:: Well, if we're not so much better, how come so many people, from
:: so many different countries of the world, come here, make lots of
:: money (in most cases, more money than they ever could possibly
:: have dreamed of or imagined or understood in their home country)
:: and never go back to their homelands? There must be something good
:: about the US.

Yes. You have lots of money. And the US, for all of its flaws, is still better than some places from which these people come. So is every other first world nation out there like Canada, England, France, etc etc. The difference is that in america, you have two things going for you: 1) If you have any real education you have an advantage over the general populace, and 2) there's more money. If you have a good education, you have a choice: go to Canada, or Europe, and compete with educated people for lower pay, or go to america where the education level is substantially lower, meaning that you're better qualified for the available positions than most residents, and can therefore make lots of money. More money than in other countries. Know why? Because in other countries, what you can do, so can thirty other people who all want the same job, so the employers don't have to pay as much to get someone who can do what they need done. In america, there's more money anyway, and fewer people with the kind of education necessary to do the job. That means that the employers have to fight to win the best employees. They fight with money, of course. So in america, you can make an absolute fortune. I know lots and lots of people who got their education here, went down there and made lots of money, and came back here because they couldn't stand it there. I also know lots of people who didn't do that because they couldn't face the idea of living in america. I'm one of them.


::: Because of the way it deals with every other nation on earth?
::
:: How many times has the US been asked to step in on foreign
:: policy?

It happens, certainly. And that little guy used to run off and grab his big brother to fight for him, too. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the times that america decides that it knows what's best for everyone else.


::: You don't think that it's because of your foreign policy?
::

:: I repeat, how many times is the US asked to step in on foreign
:: policy?


I'm talking about american foreign policy, not that of other nations. If I need help, I go and ask someone who can do what I need doing. If that person just comes over and does something that I'm trying to do myself without being asked, do you think I should be grateful or irritated? That's what it comes down to.


:: Well good, let's turn back the hands of time, and not step in
:: where we've not been wanted, and see what a wonderful world we
:: would have with most of the world, except for the US, run by
:: Communists, and Nazis.

Oh yes! Let's! But keep in mind that america was asked to join WWII and refused, so that doesn't count. Hmm.. well, we wouldn't have had that whole cold war nonsense that threatened the entire world because america and the USSR were busily rattling their sabres at each other. We wouldn't have had the massive flower child movement of the sixties that resulted from the american presences in various Asian wars to which it had not been invited.. I'm not certain where that would have put us today, but we wouldn't have such a drug problem. We wouldn't have had the Taliban in power, so they wouldn't have attacked america and we wouldn't have had this war that resulted in Canadians and innocent Afghani civilians being killed. Oh, this is a fun game. I could go on for ages.


::: You have money.
::

:: Which most of the world wants.

Well, yes. This is because the world economy is currency-based. The other nations of the world would be stupid to not take advantage of america's wealth wherever possible.


::: You have resources.
::

:: Which the rest of them wishes they had.

Why do you think america was colonised in the first place? Those resources are the main reason that america has so much money.


::: You're a valuable tool.
::

:: Oh, so much more than that.

Do you really believe that? Have you at all looked at the way america is used by the rest of the world for their own ends? Just take a look at the global issues from a non-american point of view. Read online European newspapers, for example. america contributes raw resources and money. No one asks their opinion because frankly, no one values it.


::: since Ronald Reagan.
::
:: I really can't believe you went there.

Sensitive issue for americans? I have no idea. But how stupid.. you're poised on the edge of nuclear war with the USSR... it's time to build an orbital weapons platform! That will ease tensions a whole lot, won't it? And let's sell weapons to Iran, while we're at it, and get some violence happening in the middle east. Which hates us and controls our oil supply. He was stupid and incompetent. There's footage of him sleeping through government meetings. I don't imagine that you've seen it.


::: Of course, had the people who were harmed been Canadian, or
::: anything else not American, the Americans wouldn't even have
::: noticed.
::
:: That's a really interesting statement considering all of the
:: money, food, resources we donate to starving, natural disaster
:: related incidents in various countries around the world every
:: year.

Natural disasters, yes, occasionally. Though I think that if you look up the actual numbers, they're much lower than you think. And when there's an IRA explosion in London that critically wounds a school full of children, the americans don't notice. Except the ones who are funding the IRA, possibly. We (Canada) sent america our very blood after the world trade centre incident. america's government might take some small action, make a gesture, that sort of thing, but the people don't care.


:: In fact, I believe Americans donate the most out of any country in the world.

america has more money than any other country, so I should bloody hope so. But the amount doesn't matter... look at the percentage. I think you'll find that the american percentage of donations is lower, given the amount of money they have. A million dollars from Bill Gates is worth less than three dollars from my four year old niece whose been saving pennies for weeks and weeks and weeks. (and who doesn't exist. She's an example.) The point is, look how much we care when something happens to america. Look how much america doesn't care when something happens to the rest of us. And we don't even like america.


::: We still need your tax money. I haven't finished that new extension
::: on my retirement home yet.
::

:: As if that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. At least we
:: have a higher standard of the living than say, the poor peoples that
:: support various Arab sultanates.

Politicians are politicians, wherever they are. That was just me poking georgie because all his government seems to care about is money. I mean, even more than the last government. Did you know that Clinton's government enacted all kinds of safety standards for businesses to protect the workers from injury? Did you know that the bush government removed those standards because they would cost the businesses too much? Or how about the various environmental protection acts that are being dismantled by the bush administration because they're trying to get in all friendly with the big businesses. It's all about the money.


::: Our financial institutions remain strong, and the American economy
::: will be open for business, as well.

::: Because all we care about is the money, ladies and gentlemen.
::
:: Well since our economy essentially supports the global economy, that
:: might be a trifle important to other nations, as well.

Yes, but that's not why he was telling the american people that. He was telling them that because all they care about is money. Why would he say it in an address directed at the people of his own country if it were a comment directed at other nations that won't even see the address? No, it was because he knew that people would care more about the stock market than the death toll. I'm sure you can see that.


::: Of course, when I say 'search' what I mean is 'search for current
::: political nuisances so that we can use the situation to
::: elminate some embarrasment.'
::
:: I'm sorry, call me a stupid American or something, but I think that :: statement needs a tad bit more clarification to have any validity.

My pleasure. And you're not a stupid american because you actually asked. :) I have encountered people who just argue without gathering facts.
Osama bin Ladin was allegedly trained by the CIA. He was put into power by the american government. He had since become angry at them for some reason of which I am uncertain, and had begun bombing american institutions. He had bombed the world trade centre, or at least attempted to do so. I don't recall which. He had also been blowing up american embassies. He was doing all of this without the americans catching him, which was very embarrassing for them. They would have had to tear apart the whole country to find him, and they'd need a pretty damned good reason to do that. Are you getting the picture?


::: We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these
::: acts and those who harbor them.
::
:: Gee, I think that statement might be in reference to those who knowingly
:: harbor terrorists. Duh!


That's not what he said. And that's not what's happened. Countless innocents have been killed in america's bloodthirsty desire for revenge.


::: Following that mentality, George, do you know how many American serial
::: killers have been loose in Canada over the years?
::
:: Huh??

Look at the entire quote. It's about two wrongs making a right. It has happened many times... american serial killers or common murderers flee american justice by coming to Canada. And they kill Canadians when they get here. Do we, then, demand that innocent americans be killed as justice? Because that's what's happened.. america went to avenge the deaths of innocent civilians, and to do so, it attacked anything that looked remotely menacing. That means wedding parties, apparently. And red cross buildings. Many civilians have been killed by american weapons in this desire to avenge the innocent. So, do two wrongs make a right?


::: Never mind that it's their blood that is saving my people's lives,
::: and that it's their homes that are housing my country's refugees.
::
:: Once again, huh??

Didn't they tell you about that? Hardly surprising. Most american flights were redirected to Canadian airports, where available. The hotels weren't designed for that kind of capacity, so Canadian people offered their homes to these complete strangers from america, giving them food and beds and phones to call their loved ones. Canadian people lined up around the blocks at the Canadian Blood Services buildings all across the country to donate blood to be sent to america to save lives. You know, one thing that I found very telling was something that I heard on the radio at the time. There was a reporter interviewing someone in one of the shelters they'd put together for the americans, and one of the americans said "They've all been real nice, you know, everyone. They gave us food, they let us use the phone for free..." That boggled my mind. So much so that I remember it however many months later. That it would even be an issue. That it would even cross the person's mind that there would be any kind of charge for the use of the phone at a time like that. It really reinforces the priorities of the two different nations.


:: I have a question for you: Have you ever lived in America, or have
:: you always lived in


I've lived in Jersey, England, and Canada. I've visited america many times. I've talked with many americans, in Canada, in america, and on IRC. I know many people who have lived in america, including americans who have come to Canada to get away from america. I know people who have moved there with the intention of staying long enough to make lots of money and come back, but who have come back after less than a year because they couldn't stand it any longer. But no, I haven't actually lived in america.


:: America's red-headed stepchild, I mean Canada?

Stepchild? An odd analogy. Where does that come from?

This will sound condescending, and it's really not meant that way: I'm really impressed that you've taken the time to write to me and not call me a commie or a wannabe american, or to rant mindlessly. I get a lot of those messages, so it's nice to hear from someone who actually makes points and argues them. There's a big difference between your message and, for example, those on my hatemail page.

-james

"Like Alice, I try to believe three impossible things before breakfast." -The Doctor


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